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  • HopkinGreenFrog
    replied
    Unfortunately I read this after buying from "7fishes" and also after I moved them from my quarantine tank to the main tank.

    After I read the thread, I went and had a good look, an low an behold, they all had spironucleus infection. I immediately took them all out and back to the quarantine tank. Who knows if they have already infected the nice big healthy boys I got from Aquagreen.

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  • thehalfw1t
    replied
    Really glad I found this thread before ordering NQ Algae Shrimp from LCA

    Leave a comment:


  • scilover
    replied
    There must be something wrong. Because once you feed them with algae discs, your shrimp suppose to turn into somehow reddish color after some time. But yours turned white. Thats what they did to Flamingo, to make them turn to pinkish sort of red.

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  • FishyFellow
    replied
    Originally posted by Grubs View Post
    Scutariella isn't an Australian genus in the key (link below) and looking at random google pics Scutariella japonica is much much smaller and not pigmented. I suggest you have a different species of temnocephalid. Any planaria/hydra treatment will get rid of them if you get sick of salt dips. Fenbendazole (Panacur), No Planaria etc.

    Have a crack at the key if you have a good magnifier/microscope. Key to the genera and checklist of species of Australian temnocephalans (Temnocephalida)
    LEGEND, thanks Grubs. I was going off what I was able to Google and also ran it past Jeff to see if he knew what it was. I was wondering why these were dark brown and not white, also a fair bit larger.
    I was slat dipping as its all I had on hand. Ive read no planaria can rid them of it but I dont have any to use.

    Leave a comment:


  • FishyFellow
    replied
    Originally posted by Rebel View Post
    While this may be an issue faced by pond breeding these, IMHO these should not be sold to the consumers. I can't see how an average aquarist can deal with this sort of quarantine and treatments themselves.

    Thanks for all your photos and information!
    I completely agree Rebel, no one should have to go thru this shit.
    I was very close to returning them to the LFS and asking for my money back but I figured they would be re sold to someone else with the parasites still in play... Glad I checked before putting them into my main scape.

    I dont have an ideal quarantine for fish anymore, was a 20L Kmart tank (I scaped it lol) but have jerry rigged a solution for these 10 shrimp. I think I can eradicate the parasites from all the info ive read, just need to break the cycle by removing the eggs but im also prepared to cut my losses and not add these to the display tank if I cant rid the eggs from the malts. Im planning on waiting out 2-3 malting cycles, I check 2-3 times a day and remove all malts and inspect them with a magnafine glass.

    If all else fails my son has asked me to put my small 20L Kmart tank in his bed room so ill just chuck them in there with some red cherry culls.

    Glad I didnt buy a batch of 30 as I had replied to a post on the LCA FB group and a few responded that their NQ's also had the parasites...
    Last edited by FishyFellow; 01-10-19, 11:25 AM.

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  • Grubs
    replied
    Originally posted by FishyFellow View Post
    You can see the Scutariella Japonica attached to this shrimps body.
    Scutariella isn't an Australian genus in the key (link below) and looking at random google pics Scutariella japonica is much much smaller and not pigmented. I suggest you have a different species of temnocephalid. Any planaria/hydra treatment will get rid of them if you get sick of salt dips. Fenbendazole (Panacur), No Planaria etc.

    Have a crack at the key if you have a good magnifier/microscope. Key to the genera and checklist of species of Australian temnocephalans (Temnocephalida)

    Leave a comment:


  • Colin_T
    replied
    Originally posted by pnit View Post
    Eek. What are the signs of a spironucleus infection?

    Does that much salt affect live plants?...
    Spironucleus is identified by the muscle tissue turning cream/ white in colour.

    The infected fish gradually gets weaker over a couple of weeks and then dies. In shrimp the rear half of the body is affected before the head and the shrimp normally die before it spreads into the head.

    Infected fish get cream/ white muscle tissue in the body and it usually starts in the dorsal side (top half).

    ----------------------
    High levels of salt will kill plants so it is best to remove the plants and give them a quick bleach bath before rinsing with fresh water and putting them in a quarantine tank for the duration of treatment.

    A bleach bath is simply straight bleach in a container. You can use liquid chlorine bleach from a supermarket, or granulated swimming pool chlorine. Swimming pool chlorine does not have a surfactant (soap) in it and is easier to remove. Rinse the plants under tap water to remove dirt, then put them in the straight bleach for 1-2 minutes. Remove them and rinse under freshwater, then put them in the bleach for another minute or two. Take them out and rinse well under tap water and put them in quarantine until the salt has been removed from the tank.

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  • Rebel
    replied
    Originally posted by FishyFellow View Post
    QUOTE OP: "The NQ shrimp came with some hitchhikers in the form of tiny leech like things that attach themselves to the head and abdomen"



    I got a batch of NQ Shrimp from my LFS last week which came from LCA.

    99% of my shrimp have Scutariella Japonica... No too impressed but its curable. Its caused from them being bread in ponds and not a nice enclosed environment like our tanks.
    I salt dipped each shrimp in 1 table spoon salt, 500ml water for up to 1 minute to kill any adults, dosage confirmed by Jeff at LCA. A salt dip will kill the external adults in around 30-60 seconds but you need to remove the malts as they lay eggs in the shrimps body. Quarantine for around 2 weeks should eradicate it completely, 1 month to be sure.

    Im 1 week into my quarantine and have eradicated at least 50 adult parasites from just 10 shrimp. Ive had one malt that was riddled with eggs that ive removed but I just have to bide my time and keep checking daily so the eggs in any malts dont hatch and re infect.

    These NQ shrimp will be going into my display tank with over 50 red cherries so I am taking the opportunity to quarantine before creating a huge problem for myself.


    EDIT:

    You can see the Scutariella Japonica attached to this shrimps body. Ive had them on the body, legs and rostrum.


    This poor guy had around 20 on his lower body above his legs. This pic was in the salt dip and you can see the already dead Scutariella at the bottom.


    Malt with the eggs ready to hatch and re infect...
    While this may be an issue faced by pond breeding these, IMHO these should not be sold to the consumers. I can't see how an average aquarist can deal with this sort of quarantine and treatments themselves.

    Thanks for all your photos and information!

    Leave a comment:


  • FishyFellow
    replied
    QUOTE OP: "The NQ shrimp came with some hitchhikers in the form of tiny leech like things that attach themselves to the head and abdomen"



    I got a batch of NQ Shrimp from my LFS last week which came from LCA.

    99% of my shrimp have Scutariella Japonica... No too impressed but its curable. Its caused from them being bread in ponds and not a nice enclosed environment like our tanks.
    I salt dipped each shrimp in 1 table spoon salt, 500ml water for up to 1 minute to kill any adults, dosage confirmed by Jeff at LCA. A salt dip will kill the external adults in around 30-60 seconds but you need to remove the malts as they lay eggs in the shrimps body. Quarantine for around 2 weeks should eradicate it completely, 1 month to be sure.

    Im 1 week into my quarantine and have eradicated at least 50 adult parasites from just 10 shrimp. Ive had one malt that was riddled with eggs that ive removed but I just have to bide my time and keep checking daily so the eggs in any malts dont hatch and re infect.

    These NQ shrimp will be going into my display tank with over 50 red cherries so I am taking the opportunity to quarantine before creating a huge problem for myself.


    EDIT:

    You can see the Scutariella Japonica attached to this shrimps body. Ive had them on the body, legs and rostrum.


    This poor guy had around 20 on his lower body above his legs. This pic was in the salt dip and you can see the already dead Scutariella at the bottom.


    Malt with the eggs ready to hatch and re infect...
    Last edited by FishyFellow; 01-10-19, 09:50 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • pnit
    replied
    Originally posted by Colin_T View Post
    It looks like spironucleus and is highly contagious
    Eek. What are the signs of a spironucleus infection?

    Does that much salt affect live plants? There are no other occupants besides an otto (I'm guessing he needs to move out if I do treat with salt).

    Looks like praziquantel is available for pet deworming - time to do a lot of research...

    Leave a comment:


  • Colin_T
    replied
    It looks like spironucleus and is highly contagious. It's transferred from fish to fish or shrimp to shrimp when they eat contaminated food (eg: dead fish or shrimp that have spironucleus).

    The only way I have managed to treat it is with high levels of salt (4 heaped tablespoons of rock salt, sea salt or swimming pool salt per 20 litres of water). Keep the salt in the water for at least 2 weeks, preferably 4 weeks. If there's no improvement after 2 weeks you can increase the salt levels to half strength sea water but do that as a last resort because it will kill plants and can mess up the filter bacteria.

    If you have fish from soft water (tetras, barbs, angels, Corydoras, etc) move them into a different tank or move the shrimp into a different tank so the salt does not harm the fish.

    Before treating them, wipe the inside of the glass, then do a 80-90% water change and gravel clean the substrate. Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.

    Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. Wash filter media in a bucket of tank water and re-use it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Grubs
    replied
    I use fenbendazole in the form of Panacur sheep/horse wormer to safely clear hydra and planaria from shrimp tanks but I don't know how effective it is on internal parasites that are insulated from the water column.

    I have heard of shrimpers using Praziquantel mixed into shrimp food (soaking or mix with agar) to ensure its ingested...

    I'm sure Dr Google has some advice somewhere... Clean living and replacing any losses is probably cheaper.
    Last edited by Grubs; 19-09-19, 11:34 AM.

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  • Rebel
    replied
    Grubs, would it be possible to treat with fenbendazole for the parasites? Maybe isolate and treat?

    Leave a comment:


  • Grubs
    replied
    The bright white "spots" are normal pigmentation but in that last photo I can see what looks to be 4 coiled nematode parasites in the posterior half of the tail just under the carapace. Perhaps a 5th one just under the "kink" in the tail but a bit hard to see there. This may have nothing to do with the milkyness - I cant see any nematodes in the two milky shrimp in the first photo but they are not in focus. I suspect that give clean living conditions the shrimp might be fine and the nematodes will shed with the moult (just guessing based on their position). If you see the shed moults remove them in case there are eggs laid on them.

    Leave a comment:


  • pnit
    replied
    I took some pictures. Quite tricky as they move a lot and there isn't a lot of light right now.



    An example of colour differences.



    A parasite - looks like a temnocephalids (thanks Grubs!)



    A lot (most??) have these spots on the tail. I'm not sure if it's normal.

    I'm pretty sure I don't have planaria. There are a couple of flat worms I see on the glass, but they are very tiny, slow and do not have pointed heads. Nothing at all like the Rebel's video.

    I keep the water at about 25C - I haven't checked GH / KH in a while though.

    I've decided to keep the tank dark for a few days, stop ferts and CO2 to make sure I'm not overly gassing them.

    Leave a comment:

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