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Pterophyllum altum - Wild Orinoco Altum Angel


  • Pterophyllum altum - Wild Orinoco Altum Angel

    I always want to keep some wild altum angel but always worry about the fact that they are hard to keep and very sensitive to poor quality of water. Anyway, i took a punt and bought two of these beauties four weeks ago. They were absolutely tiny but have grown decent size since then, and surprisingly they don't seem to be too high maintenance and super healthy. Hope you like them.

    This is my cute little neon ram.

    Originally posted by Zane View Post
    Wow yes they are stunning! Thanks for sharing
    Originally posted by Amber
    Love the front on pic XD
    Theres a poser if ever i saw one!
    Originally posted by NewFishTank View Post

    I can never tell the difference btw them, mine are sold as 'F1 Peruvian Altum', only cost $25 each. Any angel specialist can help with ID?
    Originally posted by EXOTIC AQUATIC View Post
    Im no "Altum" expert, but Orinoco is what i know to be the largest angel species. Usually tell tale signs include an up turned mouth, bronze-copper fade banding between the black ones. They also develop some beautiful spotting near the head-dorsal region as they mature but its not an ID point.

    Peruvian "Altum" are a Scalare sp who dont grow nearly as large nore share the upturned predatory mouth. Colors will vary but most will develop some maroon-brown spotting over the "shoulder" of the fish.

    theres a couple other "Altums showing up lately too. FOr me there is one Altum (to make things easy, no real other reason), and many other lovely wild Angels! Rio Manacapuru red backs are also a LOVELY fish.
    Originally posted by Freediver View Post
    Altum seems to be used a lot in naming angels these days but unless it's Pterophyllum altum I really don't think it should be. There is a lot of altum/scalare hybrids as well as scalare mutations in the hobby and they look quite different to the only wild caught altums I have ever seen which Justin at Subscape had. Of course they weren't for sale. These were magnificent fish that I'm sorry to say Alan looked very different to yours. Ivo yours may be the real deal but Id need to see them when they grow a bit.
    Originally posted by hsoje View Post
    WOW Ivo these are going to grow into stunning fish can i ask what you paid for them? i saw them for sale around $150 for tiny juvililes like yours
    Originally posted by EXOTIC AQUATIC View Post
    Yes these in the first post are real. There are/were Juvies from one of the wholesalers recently, dont think there is anymore though.
    Originally posted by sydad View Post
    The claim that "There is a lot of altum/scalare hybrids" in the hobby is almost certainly specious. I am aware of no evidence that such hybridisation ever has occurred, or can occur. Spawnings of altums is, by all accounts, a very rare event, ( to the extent that Heiko Bleher has stated the he doubts if it ever has occurred. I am aware however of several reports from usually reliable sources that indicate that successful spawnings have been recorded).

    Originally posted by NewFishTank View Post
    My scalare have spawned many times, especially when I've started using ro water. Frequent wc will stimulate the females to hatch. I just was too lazy to separate their fertilised eggs out and eventually they got eaten.
    Seeing mine spawned so easily, I'm pretty sure mine are 100% captive bred, especially when I'm only paying 25 bucks each. Nevertheless, they are pretTy fish. But can be quite aggressive when spawning season comes.
    Originally posted by Joller View Post
    spawning of altums most certainly has occurred in captivity, and it would be easy to hybridise them, just find a domestic scalare female, and spawn it with a male wc altum

    however i've never seen or heard of scalare/altum hybrids getting about. imo a more likely hybrid in the early days of angelfish mutations would be scalare x leopoldi. but i'd say these days people are more foccused on combining or enhancing single gene mutations than hybridising different species

    • DiscusEden
      DiscusEden commented
      Editing a comment
      Originally posted by LEG-IT View Post
      Just a few pics of ILLUSN's altums, stopped over today at Jothy's place with my brother, took a few snap's..

      Not to Pleased with the overall result of the pics, but will get better ones when they are in the display

      Altum's were abit camera shy today and were facing the opposite side most of the time LOL, LED's were on but weren't really visible as the natural light coming from the window behind the holding tank kinda killed it lol

      you can kinda see the led's working in the background, reflecting the light on the side of the redback;s.

      Didn't bring the flash out either as i couldn't be bothered building the diffuser, plus i dont think their would be enough headspace for the flash to fit in..

      Was basically a quick point and shoot.. Much better in flesh

      Originally posted by Donni Xd View Post
      is it because of the picture capturing? they look kinda pale.
      but lovely individuals, and altums are always fun to watch.
      Originally posted by LEG-IT View Post
      nah angle's and natural sunlight coming from all angles, straight after an automated water change too i believe, if you look at pic 3 the bars are more pronounce, while pic 4 and 5 are taking abit lower so light kinda reflected off it and washed out the colours abit, i assure you they are much better in flesh and are currently still in quarantine, even then there are 2 bonded pair's, they are just reaching sexual maturity with the humps on the males protruding more and red iris beginning, they need to fatten abit more also, still only 11inches tall, still tall though lol
      Originally posted by hun View Post
      Hey! i am doubt to see this call ' Altum " there are short instead of tall ,the most ........ "Altum " i ever seen in web. Hopefully the wild Altum are not instinct yet.( btw you have professional photo technigue ).
      Originally posted by LEG-IT View Post
      hey mate, could you elaborate more? sorry but couldn't quite understand what you wrote..
      Originally posted by hun View Post
      This tank breed angel , have Altum mouth part but not with long fin and broken bar. Altum mean tall , if the angel fin ( last picture)than it is short i right?
      Originally posted by __CAV__ View Post
      I thought there were no/ very few tank bred ones in Aust.
      These ones are wilds arent they?
      I have wild peruvians (scalare spp) and they are defs altums,
      The body is more laterally compressed and taller,
      9x out of 10 scalare also won't have the notch and upturned mouths that the altums posses.
      They are definitely altums,
      Originally posted by LEG-IT View Post
      There a few Tank bred Altums avaliable in Aus atm, exotic aquatic in melb has some for $380 probably same size as the above? they came from them anyways, also finland aquatics or aquatic escape might stock em, basically any shop ravi or adrian supplies fish too should have them.

      I believe a certain LFS down in sydney that's located in kingsford and is the main supplier of ADA goods (not sure if i can name the shop, as i believe their has been some issues) had some..

      The ones in the pictures are tank bred altum's, mostly likely hormone induced in asia so that they could breed.. usually in the wild any altum's with split bars/broken bars would get picked off in the group..

      They aren't full grown, yet even sexually mature, their still growing too..

      Also they are in a 16inch high tank so could explain why they aren't as tall, i remembered merrylin over at discusforums mentioned it at one stage with her own altums..

      As per what CAV said these are TRUE P.altum's, thicker bar's, compressed body, larger size, notch and upturned mouths etc

      If you look closely you can see my manacapuru inside alongside with his larger manacapuru, Gave it to my mate so he can start breeding them too..
      Originally posted by hun View Post
      If the breeder not care about their breeding stock ,it will end up deference creature,i have some tank breed Heckel with no Heckel bar $ 500 . will you buy it ?
      Is that Manacapuru you mention before eat like a pig , how come it still skinny there? no worry Illusn is worm or hex expert.
      Originally posted by LEG-IT View Post
      elaborate more about different creature please? I'll agree with you about Quality control if thats what you meant?

      Theres hardly any difference between these tank bred altums and Wild caught altums besides the broken/split bars in the pictures.. if they do breed they'll still throw out good fry though their will be the odd few carrying the trait

      $500 for heckel? even for a high quality adult specimen i still wouldn't pay for it.. and what do you mean no heckel bar? You referring to the 5th bar? Pretty sure that bar can fade away in a split second depending on its mood..

      yea they eat like pigs mate, fed 3 times a day on variety of foods (freeze dried blackworms, nls, colourbits, Sera vipan, Sera vipagran, Prestige pellets, ILLUSN's beef heart mix, and a few other hikari foods)

      their is only 1 in the group that is still skinny and is still quite small compared to the others.. Have a look at the other red back's in the pictures, do any of them look skinny besides the lil fella in pic3?

    • DiscusEden
      DiscusEden commented
      Editing a comment
      Scientific name: Pterophyllum altum
      Common name: Wild Orinoco Altum Angelfish
      AKA: Altums, Orinoco Altum, Altum Angelfish

      Country of origin:
      South America

      pH: 4.5 - 5.8
      Temperature: 26 - 29c
      Hardness: soft water
      Water flow:

      Maximum size: to 50cm high in wild, 40cm in aquariums

      Diet: pellets, flake foods, freeze dried foods, frozen foods & live foods

      Breeding: Not known to successfully have bred in the home aquarium

      Tank companions: Usually kept by themselves as they are such rare specimins. Occasionally with cardinals. Very occasionally with wild discus, such as heckels, although this is not recommended, due to the risk of cross-infection.

      From the Orinoco basin & upper Rio Negro in South America - Venezuela, Columbia & Brazil.

      All Pterophyllum spp. are legal imports to Australia as of 20/10/2013:

      The IUCN Red List reports Pterophyllum spp. as a species which has not yet been assessed at 20/10/2013:

      It is very important not to release any aquarium specimens into our waterways. Any that are not sold or re-homed/ given away, can often be re-sold to aquarium stores. If they are homed in ponds, care should be taken that they cannot escape in run-off into our waterways. Even if fish are native & local they should not be moved from one waterway to another, as this can transfer disease. If they are not local fish, they can both spread disease and either out-compete or eat local fish, shrimp & plants, causing their demise.

      They are a good fish for experienced hobbyists.
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