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Thread: Australian Echinodorus Synonyms (Unfinished) + Misc Information

  1. #1
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    Default Australian Echinodorus Synonyms (Unfinished) + Misc Information

    Of late I have had a number of requests to ID Echinodorus cultivars (something I have minimal experience in). I have declined to ID most except the obvious out of fear of coming up with an incorrect ID, however, I hope that this thread will help people to do some basic IDing themselves (or at the very least be able to tell if they have multiples of the same plant in their collections!). I'll try to update this and add species/cultivars to it as often as I can. Any ideas, questions or feedback/corrections are welcome.

    My WTB/WTT ad can be found here: http://www.aquariumlife.com.au/showt...on-Echinodorus


    Synonyms

    Echinodorus 'Aflame' (Jag Aquatics) = Echinodorus 'Black ('Dark') Beauty' (Jonny Dexter) = Echinodorus 'Purple Knight' - see below for more information

    Echinodorus grisebachii (unknown type/form)
    = Echinodorus major (Aussie Aquarium Auctions - Facebook)

    Echinodorus grisebachii 'Amphibius' (preferred) = Echinodorus 'Amphibius' = Echinodorus amphibius = Echinodorus 'Compact Bleheri' (Pisces)

    Echinodorus schlueteri (preferred) = Echinodorus maculatus (uncommon but non-erroneous) = Echinodorus 'Leopard' (LCA website, erroneous)

    Echinodorus uruguayensis 'Veronikae' (preferred) = Echinodorus veronikae (LCA website) = Echinodorus 'Uruguayensis' (Pisces)

    Echinodorus xgabrielii (preferred) = Echinodorus 'Gabrielle' (LCA Auctions - Facebook) = Echinodorus gabrielii = Echinodorus 'Indian Red' (Pisces, erroneous)

    Echinodorus xportoalegrensis = Echinodorus opacus 'Verde' (certain private sellers and Jag Aquatics, erroneous)

    Echinodorus 'Regine Hildebrandt' (overseas synonym, preferred though uncommon) = Echinodorus 'Crimson Sails' (US trade name) = Echinodorus 'Red Devil' (Pisces, erroneous)

    Echinodorus 'Martii Ipuca Red' (preferred) = Echinodorus 'Fantastic Colour' (LCA website, overseas synonym) = Echinodorus 'Ipica' (LCA Auctions - FB) =
    Echinodorus 'Red Martii' (Pisces)

    Echinodorus 'Red Zora' = Echinodorus 'Rote Zora' (LCA Auctions - FB) = Echinodorus 'Red Devil' (LCA website, common) = Echinodorus 'Crimson Sail' (Pisces, erroneous)

    Echinodorus 'Tricolour' = Echinodorus 'Tri Colour' (LCA website) = Echinodorus 'Ozelot Nile Queen' (Pisces)

    Echinodorus 'White Flame' (a certain private seller) = Echinodorus 'Marble Queen' (Pisces)


    Other Taxonomic Info

    As far as I can tell, the cultivars 'Aflame', 'Purple Knight' and 'Black ('Dark') Beauty' in Australia have all originated from Jonny Dexter's original import(s) of the same, single cultivar. Jag received E. 'Black Beauty' from Jonny Dexter and this is now what he calls and sells as E. 'Aflame'. I'm yet to get to the bottom of this chaos, which is made even worse due to the fact that E. 'Black Beauty' appears to be a separate cultivar to E. 'Aflame'. My plant is labelled as E. 'Aflame' (what I bought it as) currently. Update August 2017: I have found a flowering plant that is named as "E. 'Aflame'" which appears to differ from the non-flowering E. 'Aflame' which Johnny Dexter imported (the one in circulation). Both plants appear visually very similar.

    Echinodorus 'White Flame' is a plant with a long history in Australia. The first plants to be brought into the country to my knowledge came from Jonny Dexter's import but have since died out as far as I can tell. What is left being sold here as E. 'White Flame' I believe is E. cordifolius 'Marble Queen'. While the plants are extremely difficult to tell apart when they are younger, and particularly when they're submersed, mature plants are very easy to tell apart. Emersed E. 'White Flame' show elongated, spear shaped leaves with a twist toward the tip of the leaf. The new leaves of this plant are a striking, cream colour. In contrast, emersed E. cordifolius 'Marble Queen' has wider leaves, usually with a mottled appearance. In my experience the leaves can either be fleshy and opaque or thin and semi-translucent depending on conditions. While I'm yet to see a fleshy plant lose its variegation, I have seen a few thin-leaved plants in person which appear to be "getting over" the virus which causes the variegation. This is probably due to the conditions being more favourable to the host plant. These plants may rapidly lose their variegation completely over the course of a few weeks, becoming completely green. Due to the high price of the dud plants in the market (~$150 each for very small plants) I would recommend only buying mature plants which will be easier to identify - I am always more than happy to help with this.

    The variegated pattern seen in Echinodorus cordifolius 'Marble Queen' is due to a virus which can be transferred to other Echinodorus cultivars as well as Nymphaea and Anubias when grown emersed. This virus is likely transferable to Bucephalandra and other aroids also. Nurseries growing their swords emersed/emergent should keep E. cordifolius 'Marble Queen' separate from their other plants.

    The Echinodorus decumbens currently in Australia is believed not to in fact be descended from Kasselmann's collection in 1994 as Dave Wilson had this plant before the collection by Kasselmann in Brazil. There has been much confusion over the identity of what is in Australia under the name 'E. decumbens' but it is thought currently to be E. subalatus.

    The uruguayensis-looking supposed species africanus, veronikae and viridis are hypothesised to not be naturally occurring species like Rataj described, but appear instead to be cultivars originating from hybridisations of E. uruguayensis and other closely-related species, or when this is not the case, selected forms of E. uruguayensis according to Lehtonen (2016). The best way to label these plants would be with the Latin botanical name Echinodorus uruguayensis followed by Rataj's "species" capitalised as a cultivar/trade name epithet, eg. Echinodorus uruguayensis "Africanus". Further reading: "Shutting Down The Chaos Engine — Or, Identifying Some Problematic Echinodorus (Alismataceae) Types".

    A number of Australian growers' E. xopacus 'Verde' is in fact E. xportoalegrensis. This initially came to my attention in March-April 2017 when a plant which appeared to be E. xportoalegrensis was being auctioned in a Facebook group. After a discussion with a few group members it became clear a number of people have this same plant, which although being kept and occasionally sold under the name 'E. opacus 'Verde'' and incorrectly thought of as a "narrow-leaved form" of the Rio Verde locale of E. xopacus, is instead E. xportoalegrensis. It would seem all misidentified plants originate from an initial mix up a number of years ago, one plant of which made it into Jag's hands and was identified by Doc as E. xportoalegrensis. As of September 2018, it appears as though Jag Aquatics is also selling E. xportoalegrensis as Echinodorus (uruguayensis) "Viridis" - I assume the plants were left unlabeled and "Viridis" has been confused with "Verde". Jag Aquatics did sell the real Echinodorus uruguayensis "Viridis" in 2016. An easy way to tell E. xportoalegrensis from E. opacus is through the leaves of each plant. The former has elongated leaves that normally twist and curl when the latter generally has wide leaves that are lobed at the base. Another method which may be used to ID these two plants apart is their method of propagation as E. xportoalegrensis flowers when E. xopacus either does not flower or will do so extremely rarely depending on what you read. Rataj states it's not possible, but a more recent article by Lehtonen and Falck states otherwise. Update July 2017: I have been told by a sword grower in Townsville that he was able to flower what he believed was E. xopacus in the middle of winter in Melbourne a number of decades ago. It was my understanding the water temperature was very close to freezing (0-5°C most likely). More likely however, is that this was a mislabeled E. xportoalegrensis or another similar flowering hybrid of which there are countless types. Regardless, the fact remains that E. xopacus appears not to be able to flower in the regular aquarium of 20-30°C. Update September 2018: In what is possibly the only record of it ever happening, a grower I know from Cairns has flowered his Echinodorus opacus (Iguaçu 2009) in a regular aquarium of 20-25°C! This may end up being a very important discovery! Some photos... http://imgur.com/g2QBGlX.jpeg, http://imgur.com/PFV1JBK.jpeg

    After talking to Daniel Falck in June 2017 he has shed a little more light on the situation concerning E. 'Regine Hildebrandt'/'Crimson Sail(s)'. To his knowledge, the cultivar name 'Crimson Sails' was first used to sell the plant E. 'Regine Hildebrandt' in the American hobby due to the fact Regine Hildebrandt was a German politician and this was not considered smart marketing in order to sell plants in the US. E. 'Crimson Sails' and not E. 'Crimson Sail' seems to be the correct alternate (but not ideal) synonym.

    From what I can gather from my research, my correspondence with Daniel Falck and Doc's correspondence with my Dad, what is here called "E. 'Fire Feather'" is not the cultivar E. 'Tanzende Feuerfeder' (E. 'Dancing Fire Feather') which I always assumed Pisces had renamed and started selling under the name 'Fire Feather' due to its easier pronunciation. The plant that Pisces sells is currently unknown, although I believe I have now found the "real" E. 'Tanzende Feuerfeder' so will be able to compare both plants in the future side by side.

    E. schlueteri 'Leopard' ("E. 'Leopard'") from LCA appears to be E. schlueteri, or at least was the case with the plants from Jeff I'm keeping. I've only found one retailer who keeps the real 'Leopard' and I am hoping to have some of these properly identified plants in large numbers in the future to spread around the hobby. If you need help differentiating these two plants please feel free to PM me. Other LCA swordplants which are going around and I believe are misidentified are E. palaefolius? being sold as E. grandiflorus, E. 'Red Flame' being sold as E. 'Green Flame', E. subalatus being sold as E. 'Amphibius' among a few others. Note that these are just plants I have got from LCA that have turned out to be misidentified, and as I'm not sure how common this is or whether this was just a one-off, the list above does not reflect most of these findings.
    Last edited by Cryptocorynus; 19-11-18 at 02:44 PM.
    Rainbowfish, Cryptocoryne, Echinodorus

  2. #2
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    Echinodorus xgabrielii is sold by Pisces as Echinodorus 'Indian Red'.
    Echinodorus maculatus 'Leopard' = Echinodous schlueteri 'Leopard'. Lehtonen 2011 analysis inferred that these are the same plant. E. maculatus is not in common use yet.
    Echinodorus 'Ozelot Nile Queen' supplied by Pisces.
    Pisces have mixed the cultivars E. 'Kleiner Bar' and E. 'Red October' ie You could get either one when ordering from eg Livefish.
    8x2x3, 8x2x2.5 6x2x2 5x2x2, Echinodorus, Eriocaulons. Native aquatic plant species.

  3. #3
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    Thanks heaps, Doc! I've fixed the E. schlueteri 'Leopard' to show E. maculatus as a non-erroneous but uncommon synonym and have included Pisces as the supplier for the E. 'Ozelot Nile Queen'.

    I also had a feeling E. 'Indian Red' was E. xgabrielii - I have heard that Jeff's E. 'Gabrielle' (E. xgabrielii) stock came from Pisces originally as E. 'Indian Red', I just wasn't sure before if this had been a one-off IDing mistake on Pisces' part or not. As I know now that it wasn't, the OP has now been corrected to show E. 'Indian Red' (from Pisces) as a synonym of E. xgabrielii.
    Last edited by Cryptocorynus; 09-12-16 at 10:03 PM.
    Rainbowfish, Cryptocoryne, Echinodorus

  4. #4
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    I am confused; If I ordered Red Devil and Crimson sail from Pisces I would be getting Crimson Sail and Red Zora respectively?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by happyfins View Post
    I am confused; If I ordered Red Devil and Crimson sail from Pisces I would be getting Crimson Sail and Red Zora respectively?
    To my knowledge, if you order E. 'Red Devil' (E. 'Red Zora') from Pisces it will be E. 'Crimson Sails' and vice versa. If you order both cultivars you'll hopefully receive both cultivars, they'll just be mixed up. I have not had first hand experience with Pisces themselves mixing up these two plants (I'm taking Doc's word on this), but we have had this happen when buying through a private seller and a business (two separate occasions) that I'm assuming would have got their plants originally from Pisces at some point. As for the plants, they're both easy enough to tell apart (E. 'Red Devil' is mottled similarly to an Ozelot when E. 'Crimson Sails' is one solid colour) but if you need a hand send me through a PM again and I'm more than happy to help you out.
    Last edited by Cryptocorynus; 17-06-17 at 07:44 PM.
    Rainbowfish, Cryptocoryne, Echinodorus

  6. #6
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    I can confirm that Pisces is still selling E.xgabrielii as E.'Indian Red'. I got the plant a few weeks back it settled well and sent a flower spike. All in all seems identical to the E.xgabrielliI got from you guys.
    Cheers,

    Serkan

    Currently breeding 15+ different killifish!

  7. #7
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    Hey Serkan, great to see you active here again. I'm guessing the flower spike had a single whorl (bunch of flowers, in other words)? That's normally the case with it.

    I think most of this confusion arose when someone I know who used to run an aquatic nursery in Northern NSW legally imported a heap of cultivars from a contact at Dennerle circa 2000. Everything was labelled and potted in the quarantine facility but a water main burst I think he said, and blasted pots, plants and labels all over the place. Once that had happened the IDs were all lost and he subsequently sold most of the plants to Pisces. They must have tried relabelling them as best they could - obviously not with too much success!
    Last edited by Cryptocorynus; 26-10-18 at 05:53 PM.
    Rainbowfish, Cryptocoryne, Echinodorus

  8. #8
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    Cheers I get active here every once in a while.

    Shame about the names getting mixed up but great that those plants were imported in in the first place. I will be playing around with naming my plants in a more formal fashion soon. We'll see how far I'll get.
    Cheers,

    Serkan

    Currently breeding 15+ different killifish!

  9. #9
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    Luke
    I have commented somewhere that Fire feather sold in Australia is most likely Frans Stoffel.
    8x2x3, 8x2x2.5 6x2x2 5x2x2, Echinodorus, Eriocaulons. Native aquatic plant species.

  10. #10
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    Hey Dave, I thought the same but I don't think I had records of where it was you said this. Thanks a lot for jotting it down here. Hopefully we can put this small amount of uncertainty to rest in the near future with the help of that database of yours.
    Last edited by Cryptocorynus; 08-02-19 at 08:47 PM.
    Rainbowfish, Cryptocoryne, Echinodorus

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